tv Forbes on FOX FOX News December 31, 2011 8:00am-8:30am PST
>> it is a good year. and once we resolve the issue in europe market will be high. >> you guys have been fantastic to this show all year happy new year,. dave is next on forbes on fox. here's dave. >> well, fox, you will need the bubbly tonight. taxes are on their way up tomorrow. 70 federal tax cuts are about to expire. talk about uncertainty and costs. forbes gang has a fix for it all. happy new year to all of you. we'll go in foxus with mr. steve forbes. kim mcnicholas and morgan bren an. this is all yours, why does the flat tax makes sense. >> if you want a flat economy in a fat economy flat tax is the way to do it. it lowers on productive worth
and risk take success . tracks foreign capitol. we don't have to spend six and half hours filling out tax forevermores. half of the lobbying in washington revolves around it and crushes the spirit of the american people. they don't know what the rules are. and bad all around and get rid television and start over. kim, it sounds good to me, how about to you? >> i don't agree with the flat tax at all. i don't understand how steve can call it a flat tax. that is exempses or deductions. we need it not only for the lower income bracket. it is giving them exemption and deductions for you know, parents with young children, but it is going to hurt the middle class. they need the exemption because the middle class is hurt nothing today's economy . losing their jobs and incomes
are falling and underwater homes are worth less than the mortgage. they can't afford a flat tax and pay like the rich. >> flat tax. a lot of people don't know what is in it. it is 100,000 pages, isn't it time for a flat tax to make things more certain as far as the taxes are concerned. >> steve is right it is past time to get a flat tax in the country and would help the middle class. they tend to get roped in a complicated system that even i.r.s. workers tell me they don't like the current tax system because it invites tax evasion . the middle class gets dinged with all sorts of complexity. when you see the former communist states in the eastern europe adopting a flat tax and we are left with a code that turns intires in america's museum of confusion.
if the former soviet soviet states get it why not us. even iran has a flat tax. >> the markets in 2011 were flat. we end 2011 where we ended 2010 and part it confusion and uncertainty about taxings. >> i don't disagree with a dire overhaul of the tax code. but what wars me. 18.5 gdp federal tax revenue and all of the flat tax proposals run the risk of falling short. unless we do major cutting to our spending or maybe supplement with a modest flat tax we are going to put our debt furtherer in the hole. >> i know steve will make the argument better than i can. the flat tax doesn't mean necessarily less revenue. there is it a way to get more
people paying into the system and that would keep revenue levels at where they are now. >> you may be surprised, but i don't have the allergy to the flat tax that you might expect. the flat tax as i like it call it special interest brocode is broken and it is useless. give steve credit for a proposed flat tax and the god father of the flat tax and efforts to find way to bring the exemption lemp up so middle class and lower income workers will not be hurt as well. it needs more work. if there is that aspect covered there is something to it. the minute we get it, congress will start fooling around with it to lower it or add new breaks for special interest. >> bill, are you for it or against it. >> dry for simplicity.
steve forbes has confused two separate activities by congress. >> wow. >> number one jumping up the tax code with the friends . depletion allowance and qualifieded pole rental and separate thing. when you talk about it david, exhibition. that is a budget shen agans and pretending that the budget is balanced because medicare will go down to march 1st. steve, you have a lot to deal with. >> kim has a signed copy of my flat tax book so she will done what i am talking about. >> i designed my flat tax so that everyone gets a tax cut and we don't get in a game of who's helped and go ahead, kim. >> i was wondering what about in terps was maul businesses. how cugive them a flas tax?
>> let him answer, steve. >> businesses, all businesses have tax rates cut from 35 down to 17 percent under my proposal . no depreciation schedules. capitol investment write it off in year one . loss applied against future profits and focus on real things instead of spending on accountants. >> what about charity deductions for contributions or mortgage interest deductions. that's what people care about? >> under the flat tax. you will have more after tax income and charity and mortgage interest, all experience shows david when people have more, they give more. reagan cut the top from 28-17 . charities thought it would hurt. but people gave more. if you have more after tax income and a better job, you will buy more house. >> would it help the economy and jobs? >> it would help the economy and jobs and get the awful tax
system off of the backs of our entrepreneur and businesses. and the issue is can congress do it? i don't think you can have tax reform with charlie rangel and harry reid . charlie rangel it is like a chesire cat they like the jigger with the tax code. >> that's the nice thing you don't have to worry about that. it is permanent and those who fear about jiggering with the code. it is simple. do everything and everyone can see it. you can make changes in the code. >> i am willing to bet, rick doesn't think it is permanent. congress likes to fiddle with things and never ep fingers still. >> that's why we burn their fingers. >> you moved the point. right after we got through with the discussion, you asked steve about exemptions that you would like. >> not necessarily. but are important.
and yeah. that's why you give people a choice. you stay with the old system or go with the new. what hong kong does. that lowers the political temperature. >> what if you have a choice. if you don't think the flat tax is good for you or other people don't, they can go back to the old way. >> i think that is a great idea. we are a society of choice and like different option and you should be able to decide whether to go with the big or plattax. i like the big book actually. i make sure i am on it and i love my exemptions. >> besides giving the copy of the book he will give you money to go to a psychiatrist. >> i will expect a check. >> she will take the check, steve. taxes are not the only things on the way up, so are new environment rigs. will it drive up the heating
prices in the new year. first right here, big money folks making beats on housing. is it a sign it will be home sweet home in 2012? ♪ [ woman ] ♪ what i want this season ♪ if you'd like to try and guess ♪ ♪ it is something very special ♪ i would readily confess [ dogs barking ] ♪ 'cause all i want this season ♪ ♪ is something from your heart ♪ la da da, la da da [ male announcer ] thinking of others this holiday season, travelers.
happy new year everybody. live from america's new's headquarters i am jamie colby. nasa is counting down the seconds until the twin spacecraft go to the moon. crail go a will slip in orbit today . his twin grail b will go and do the same tomorrow. scientist hope to use the measuring machine sized vehicle to today lunar gravity. folk land down under are ringing in the new year
already. take a look. three, two, one. happy new years. and getting in the mood. they are lining the shores of sydney harbor and organizers spent 15 months planning the glittering fireworks display. keep it here on fox to bring in the festivities. i am jamie colby have a good day. >> iowa kicks off the official election season. herman cain, iowa's governor austin and tea party favorite representative allen west and donald trump. begins at 8:00 p.m. eastern time. as the new year is starting to begin. housing is finally setting for a rebound. big money managerings are pouring cash in housing investments and kim, you are thinking they are right about a turn around? >> they are. hedge funds are betting on a
rebound is a really good indication and investors across the board are betting on it. home builder shares up since the end of the third quarter and we have number of americans who signed the contract to bay - buy a new home. amazing indication that we hit rock bottom and on the way back up. >> rick unger, we have good data and hedge funds buy. is that good news? >> i would like to believe it like kim. i live in california and i would love to see the turn around. and speculators and shows interest in the market. but i think we are looking at earliest 2014. >> one optmist and one pessimist. >> i land in the middle of this one. there is a difference between hitting bottom and rebound .
it depends on if you are an investor or homeowner. we are bouncing on the bottom as far as the housing market. i think we will for next few years . homeowners shouldn't believe that the home values are going up. but if you are a real estate investor and hedge fund it is a rebound. you are investing in multifamily homes which the rental market is soar rebounding. >> steve, is this where only the hedge fund guys make good and the rest of the us will see our housing prices get down? >> we'll have modest improvement from a low level . the fact of the matter we'll not get a fundmental improvement until barack obama who gets out. those who believe otherwise live in glass houses. fan yefreddie are hurting the housing market by making
impossible for people who are making mortgage payments to get refinances because housing prices are down. >> bill, just about every new mortgage is handled by fan yefred yetaxpayers bailed them out in 2011 alone. >> i will not defend them. get back to the central point. hedge funds buying in real estate. no one got rich following a hedge fund. they are shooting craps with other people's money. half of the house fund betog black . half of the hedge funds betting on red. >> that doesn't mean they are wrong. >> they are shooting crass and half of them will get a bonus for being right. >> bottom line, what will happen to housing. good or bad? >> i think bill is right. wall street crowd as we called about it since 2009. and uncertain markets certainly places like phoenix where it dropped 60 percent.
and no nationwide crash come nothing housing and they are relying on faulty data and not taking in the home equity lines of credit. and the shadow inventory is underitated by the 50 percent . there are still certain markets that are rebounding and some are dead wood right now . you will not go near it. >> and emac brings up a great point. banks don't want to talk about it because it makes them look worse than they are. there is a huge shadow inventory to clear out. >> they need more money and it is flowing in the economy in order for the people to afford the home that is are out there and a great sign that more money will be flowing out in the economy. unemployment claims are down . more people are hire they will feel more secure in order to invest in new homes. >> i hope you are right. morgan, what do you >> shadow
inventory numbers came down from 1.9 miion. hedge fund guys are buying them up. >> this is why i do think that homeowners should not get excited because in a lot of places, we'll see home values flatter and going down slightly more. if you do have the money to invest like a hedge fund it is it a good time. at these prices it is going to go up. >> let's home. you get great bargains. and coming up next. a record number of folks shopping on line to save a lot of money this holiday season. that is good news. unless you consider what it is going to mean for jobbings. that flip side is coming up next [ mujahid ] there was a little bit of trepidation, not quite knowing what the next phase was going to be, you know, because you been, you know, this is what you had been doing. you know, working, working, working, working, working, working.
well holiday shopping numbers are in and on line is soaring 15 percent from last year. brick and mortar stores like sears and k-mart taking hits. 120 stores are closing their doors in the new year. flip side said on line bargain shopping is bad for the economy. >> as much as i love on line shopping. i did it myself. i think it is detrimental to brick and mortar tores and economy . especially small businesses. it has potential to affect how many main street shops hire for the holiday season. sears we are seeing closings
and more interestingly. this hits the state's budget. on line vendors do not have to collect or pay sales tax to states they don't have a presence n and we are seeing estimate of billions of dollars that are lost. that is money that could go back to education and health care services. >> steve, i don't want an internet tax and what about the brick and mortar, are they suffering because of the internet success. >> actually, i think no. because the whole thing of productivity, david you learn to get more from less resources and frees up resources to expand the economy . the store that is are smart realize that in terms of return, people get the better experience going with brick and mortar than on line. it is win-win all around. they have more mon yetime, which is precious commodit yethen apple.
people said apple would flop in retailing but it is the most successful. and kim, you can't deny sears looks like it is on its way out for goodness sake. >> i will send you steve, a moose head or bear head in southerp california which is a mom and pop that is forced out of business because more people are buying fishing poles and guns and ammo on line. a dozen people are out of work because the small mom and pop is going out of business. borders for example, more than 11,000 people out of work because amazon killed their business . blockbuster closing their outlets 60,000 people out of work. >> is it good for the overall economy and boost in sales on the internet. >> it is a great thing. on line stores have to have brick and mortar shops and warehouse to get the goods out to ship .
smart stores like target have great sites and as for the argument that it is hurting the small brick and mortar shop. they are holding themselves up to work for big company that is know how to do it right. sears got it wrong. the stores like a circus . they they should have got rid of eddie lambert. and remember those commercials. rick, bottom line creative destruction. sears may not survive but over all economy will do well, what do you think? >> it is a moot question. you cannot stop progress. on line sales are here to stay like it or not with the exception of clothing and steve, twice in one show agreeing with steve. >> influence pays off, rick. >> it is scaring me. we have to get to the new year
rick. >> rick, he put something in your water. we'll tell but that after the show is over. coming up. you don't want to drop the ball with your investments, do you? stock up informers have the best picks for 2012. get a piece of paper and pin. write it down next . total access - to everything. from idea to research to trade. including financials, indicators and real-time streaming quotes. whether you check your investments every day or every minute, our app can take them from thought to trade. at scottrade, seven-dollar trades are just the start. try our powerful mobile app. it's another reason more investors are saying... i'm with scottrade.
>> zeb ratechnologies. make a bet. they make bar code. >> wear a neck brace. it is a white knuckle ride. >> you love pimco. >> it is proven management and reserve in capital. >> i like it. but underlying could hurt. you like lin energy. >> i do. it pays a slick seven percent dividend. >> you like it. >> it is too volatile but it rebounds. >> you like caterpillar, why?